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tv   The Kudlow Report  CNBC  October 28, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm EDT

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up. this time from the fed. i don't think the fed will matter all that much this time because it is an earnings period and we know there's a bit of a slowdown in the u.s. all that said, have to be back on this taper watch. there's always a bull market somewhere, i promise to try to find it for you. i'm jim cramer and i'll see you tomorrow. . the obama care debacle continues, and a story just breaking tonight. nbc news reports the obama white house has known for at least three years that millions of americans would in fact lose their preferred health insurance plans because of obama care. this comes as more people call for hhs secretary kathleen sebelius to step down over this, but i say it's way over time to hold president obama accountable. the buck stops there. he ought to show some back bone and not just blame his underlings. and there's talk about the fed
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using the inflation rate. we have alan greenspan to talk about that policy and talk about the current state of the economy. our other special guest will be former florida governor jeb bush. i'm going to ask him about the civil war in the republican party and how to solve it. all that and more on a special edition of "the kudlow report." we are live from washington, d.c. tonight and we begin right now. good evening, everyone. i'm larry kudlow. this is "the kudlow report." we are live, 7:00 p.m. eastern, 4:00 p.m. pacific time. we are in washington, d.c. top stories, continuing failure that is obama care tops the news tonight. we begin with a breaking story from our colleagues at nbc news. four stories deeply involved in the crafting of the affordable care act tell nbc news that most of the 14 million americans that
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have their own health insurance will have their insurance cancelled as a result of obama care. the report says the white house has known this will happen for at least three years. and that means that the repeated promises made by president obama and others about keeping your own health plan were just not true for millions of us and team obama knew it. we'll keep a close eye on that story as it continues to develop this evening. now, there's also a growing amount of heat on hhs secretary kathleen sebelius to step down. i do think she deserves a lot of criticism but i'll say again, she's taking way too much for the president, who should be held accountable for all of this. listen to how our friends at "saturday night live "i made fun of the story. >> secretary sebelius this week said president obama did not know about the technical
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problems until after the site's launch, in a statement she delivered from under the bus. >> right under the bus. more from snl a little later in the show. now let's turn to our distinguished guests to talk about this. joining me on set, jared bernstein. jim pethokoukis, a cnbc contributor. john bernstein, let me go to you first. i never like to say presidents lie. i like to say they're examples of huge cognitive dissonance, okay? they knew 65% would be cancelled, other parties say they thought 80% would be cancelled. that jives with our consultants that told us as many as 14 million to 16 million people will lose their insurance. why doesn't the president fess up to that? >> i have a hard time wrapping
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my head around those numbers. we know 85% of americans have health insurance right now. we're talking about 255 million people will health insurance. if you're talking about 10 million or 14 million who have plans that don't measure up to the standards of obama care, these plans do have to meet a certain level of care -- >> but it's a change. you have to change your insurance. >> he looked straight in the cam, i don't know how many times this has been played over and over again, if you like your insurance plan, you can keep it, if you like your doctor, you can keep it. >> it was a key selling point. are we talking about exami incompetence? are we talking about arrogance? i think the president and the white house don't care. their attitude is these are better plans, you shouldn't have liked your other plan, we know what's better four, you just don't get it. >> do these numbers make sense to you? jared says they're too big. what do you think?
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>> i think it makes sense for the market for people who shot for coverage on their own, the individual or non-group market. in the employer-based market, there will be disruption. it won't be massive, crazy 70% disripgs, it will be more like 30%, 25% disruption. if you want to know what the answer is, ask labor unions. labor unions are staying the plans they offer for employees, the costs are being driven to unsupportable levels and that's because of obama care. >> ovik, you're saying these numbers may not apply to the individual market. we had a big story from the l.a. times. now the results are coming in in california, premiums going up 25%, 30%. here's the key point, i want everyone to comment on this. people are jamming into medicaid. medicaid is the ultimate winner in this sweepstakes. it's going to cost a fortune, it was not budgeted properly and
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medicaid is actually the least of all the insurance plans. what's up with that? >> so the way obama care was designed is there's a 30 million people who are supposed to get new health coverage under the law, half of that is under medicaid and half of that is under the exchanges. the numbers have changed since then because a number of the states have opted out of the medicaid expansion. but in general the exchanges in theory should provide a better insurance product than medicaid. medicaid's outcomes are terrible because you really don't have access to a doctor because a lot of doctors don't take medicaid. with the exchanges, the government is saying the plans have to cover all these different thing, you have to charge the same rate to the healthy and sick and that doubles the cost of insurance for a lot of people. >> when you put in the medicaid piece, these numbers start adding up. this is somebody nobody in the white house or administration has talked about, is what's going to happen to medicaid, which i think is in the worst
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shape of any of our entitlements, likely to go bankrupt -- >> i think you have the medicaid story pretty wrong here. because of the supreme court decision, there's going to be fewer people with medicaid coverage than we thought because some states are opting out. everyone expected that people up to a certain level of income, actually about 138%, will be eligible for medicaid in states that took that option and that's a good thing. i very much disagree with you -- >> if you only care about on a piece of paper saying you have access to health care. the reality -- in the reality-based community, if you want them to have access to good health care and doctors, it's not such a great program. what do they say about the health care outcomes? zero. no difference. >> independent work've worked w medicaid in new york city. if you're a low-income person,
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medicaid card is a gold card in terms of your insurance. >> people said there was no difference in those key health care metrics, none. >> i agree with that. but those people had comprehensive health care coverage, which they would not have had in the absence of -- let me bring in -- i want to get your take on this. medicaid is not exactly a choice choice. somebody's got to start talking about this. >> you have very limited flexibility because of the way medicaid was written in the johnson administration. there's an enormous amount of innovation the way we deliver make but medicaid is stuck in the 1965 ford pinto model because the law forces the insurance to cover all these services that doesn't make the program physicalfiscally -- >> how with you people cover poor people? instead of just sitting here and
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bashing people, how would you -- >> i would have them buy health insurance. >> out of pocket? these are poor people. >> i would subsidize them. >> okay. >> i agree with that. because then the subsidy would be clear and above board and we would know exactly what we're doing. and by the by, republicans are signing up for medicaid. it's an interesting point. it not just chris christie. john kasich just did it in ohio. it's going to spread. >> you just commit yourself to a pretty expensive health care plan if you're going to subsidize -- >> i didn't want any of this in the first place. >> competition plans will compete against each other. >> i could have done this completely differently for lower costs. >> it sounds like me -- >> totally deregulate this. >> we appreciate your input, avik. we have some financial news
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tonight, including news from apple. mr. greenspan has a new book out. it getting a lot of attention, including some sharp criticism from some. don't forget, free market capitalism is the best road to prosperity. here's more obama care come being relief. -- comic relief. at a ford dealer with a little q and a for fiona. tell me fiona, who's having a big tire event? your ford dealer. who has 11 major brands to choose from?
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your ford dealer. who's offering a rebate? your ford dealer. who has the low price tire guarantee, affording peace of mind to anyone who might be in the market for a new set of tires? your ford dealer. i'm beginning to sense a pattern. get up to $140 in mail-in rebates when you buy four select tires with the ford service credit card. where'd you get that sweater vest? your ford dealer.
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welcome back to "the kudlow report." i'm jacky deangelis with a market flash. apple reporting strong numbers, profit of $8.26 a share on revenue of 36.5 billion dollars. it was concern about gross margin guidance for the current quarter that initially impacted apple's share price. as for today's trading session, the markets were essentially flat, the dow down a point, the nasdaq off three, the s&p 500 with a small gain. larry, we are just getting word tonight that november 14th is the day senate banking committee
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is considering a hearing on janet yellen's nomination to run the fed. >> all right. we're going to talk about a story that the ned wants high inflation. we'll have to call miss yellen an empress of inflation, an upgrade from the queen of inflation. let's bring in andy cross. andy, what's up with apple? you buying it or not? >> the gross margin number i think got investors a little spooked to start with, but i think long term when you look at apple -- this is not going to be a rocket ship, larry, but when you think about the value they can add around the globe, all the products they can offer and still reach new initiatives. tim cook still has to get the initiatives to hit but i think he will. >> two stellar areas of profits,
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tech and industrials. what do you think? >> i think they're both very attractive. tech overall, when you think of the innovation going on in the world here. i think if we have a little more goog google-like thinking, maybe we wouldn't have quite the problems we've had over the past week or so. i think we need to see more innovation. it's good for america. it's very bullish for american commerce. that's why i like investing in america. >> and despite the good stock market, businesses still refuse to make long-term investments to create jobs. >> i agree with that. i don't quite understand when i hear innovation and i hear market meltup lately comes from. gdp growth is 1.6%, next year i'm looking at some imf numbers next year, 2.5%, advanced economies are supposed to grow a little above 1, euro is flat,
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china is down. why isn't the innovation showing up in the numbers? i don't see where the growth is. >> is there a link between stocks and gdp, andy cross? i always thought profits were the -- >> larry, they really are. cash on the books of these companies is still at record high. we haven't even seen a lot of plowing back. it's been very steed ady -- >> where do you get profits without growth? >> you have to have growth. >> where do you get profits other than the united states? >> there's a thing called europe and china -- >> europe's coming back a little bit. >> europe's coming back in you have an incredibly powerful microscope. i'll take a whack at it. there is such a thing called cost cutting. and by the way, and i don't necessarily like this because i'm a rising tide lifts all boats, but the weak labor story
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and relatively high real unemployment rate is highly profitable for businesses, let's face it. i hate to say it. i don't like it. >> so you if take people down and boost revenues -- >> a lot of times if the economy is booming, the stock market can boom. but sometimes when the economy is booming and the unemployment rate is coming up, it becomes more difficult for firms to cut costs and they may have less profitability. >> the market is forward looking, too, at least probably 12 or 18 months. the market is looking not where growth is right now and i admit, we haven't seen the growth no, doubt about that. companies are running more efficient than ever before -- >> don't tell me there's going to be a growth upturn. >> goldman sachs is looking for 3.6% next year. >> they just keep cooking up. all the keynesian firms, i love it. for i don't know how many months this summer, i kept saying
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where's the growth up turn? i don't see, it the data doesn't show it. and andy, you buying or selling right now? >> i'm definitely buying long term. >> sectors real fast. >> technology is a great sector, industrial, too. manufacturing in america is starring to hum along and it will carry the economy. >> manufacturing humming along, the jobs report doesn't show that. >> it's obvious where the money will be, it will be in web site development. >> health care used to be an extremely profitable business. will it be in the future? what do you think? and a job creator, too, health care. >> it's a little bit dicey because there's so many factors go into that, which is one reason why i'm not hugely bullish on health care, much more why i like technology and companies playing in that space. one company called manhattan associates, a technology company
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helping companies manage their invento inventory and infrastructure. >> it's hard to get a sustainable growth cycle when you have this revenues up, cost cutting down model because none of the economy's growth reaches the middle class. >> you're absolutely right. what we should have, as i've said a million times, regulation light, across-the-board tax cuts, might even give tax credit to middle class families, instead of all this spending, which has done nothing. there is no upturn coming in the first half of next year, trust me. >> this could be a crushing blow to toyota as consumer reports lowers the boom on its most popular model. and ford doesn't fare too well either. jackie deangelis has the latest on that story. and "the kudlow report" is coming right back. but first, we found the tape. here's more obama care comic relief. >> if our web site still isn't
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loading properly, we're probably just overloaded with traffic, millions of americans are visiting health carcare.gohealt is great news. unfortunately, the site was just designed to handle six people at a time. if you're in a rush consider using our low-res web site with simpler fonts and graphics. my customers can shop around-- see who does good work and compare costs. it doesn't usually work that way with health care.
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but with unitedhealthcare, i get information on quality rated doctors, treatment options and estimates for how much i'll pay. that helps me, and my guys, make better decisions. i don't like guesses with my business, and definitely not with our health. innovations that work for you. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. anbe a name and not a number?tor scottrade. ron: i'm never alone with scottrade. i can always call or stop by my local office. they're nearby and ready to help. so when i have questions, i can talk to someone who knows exactly how i trade. because i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. that's why i'm with scottrade. announcer: ranked highest in investor satisfaction with self-directed services by j.d. power and associates. ido more with less with buless energy. hp is helping ups do just that. soon, the world's most intelligent servers,
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jackie deangelis is in the newsroom with all the top stories of the day. >> penn state will pay nearly $60 million to 26 victims who say they were sexually abused by sandusky. there are several other claims not included in the settlement. penn state says this money is coming from insurance policies, not student tuition, public grants or private donations. sandusky is serving a 30-to-60 year prison sentence. >> the camry receives a poor safety rating on a new crash test. "consumer reports" says it can't recommend buying that car. ford also stung by the magazine's ranking, came in 26th out of 28 brands based on reliability. >> and a link sent from president obama's official twitter account was hacked. the syrian electron beiic army
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that. the links were hacked and instead led to syrian propaganda. so the twitter account itself was not hacked, it was that third party url shortener that was and that's how the hackers were able to change the links, larry. >> many thanks, jackie deangelis. appreciate it. >> there are very few people in this country and elsewhere who have the expertise and our economy and economic policies like alan greenspan. the former fed chairman is about to join me live on the set here in washington. we'll get his take on the economy when we come back. i'm kudlow. please stay with us. americans take care of business.
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historically the fed has fought to suppress inflation, but some economists now want to jump start our sluggish economy with as much as a 6% inflation rate. in his new book former federal reserve board chairman alan greenspan writes "the expect california of american sen val bankers trying to press the inflation right higher? the aftermath of the 2008 crisis
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is virtually without precedent. author of "the map of the territory," alan greenspan. >> thank you. >> this lead story in yesterday's "new york times," front leader absolutely, all these people talking about raising the inflation rate. one guy, ken rogoff from harvard, who ought to know better, said what we need for the economy is a 6% inflation rate. what do you think of that? >> you can't order the rate of inflation. once you open up the spigots, it gets out of control. and i think the history of pretty much going back to the 18th century is you cannot play games with that. so my concern is i think can you make the metric case that a little inflation will give you a little bit of a pick up. the problem is you cannot control it.
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it's like a drunken sailor, who is wandering all over the place. theoretically you can make the argument but it's a very risky pop signatur proposition to do that. >> i guess theoretically they could jack up the inflation rate. but they poured -- you have a school of thought now, market monitorists, they believe the fed should be targeting nominal gdp and that would give us the uplift. what do you think of that? >> none of these mechanisms worked. i was there for 18 1/2 years, we looked at them all. the markets are driven by forces which central banks only have a limited amount of capability of
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controlling. what concerns me mostly is that when you start talking about maneuvering the inflation rate, it's very difficult. and as you point out, the central bank has flooded the economy with liquidity. what has happened to the liquidity, it's gone nowhere. just look at the balance sheets. you have a very significant increase in central bank expansion, and a very large increase in commercial banks holding of excess reserves. but they're holding those excess reserves with no capital charge, and they're getting 25 basis points free for holding something which is hypothetical on their balance sheet. all they have is an electronic transfer, and they get 25 basis points for a very large amount -- >> nice work if can you get it. why take a risk? >> the problem is if you take the risk and you go into cni loans, commercial and industrial
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loans, then up get a full capital charge. and the one thing that is bothering the american banking system at this particular stage is they're trying to bring their capital up and having difficulty doing so. so that you have this very large amount of central bank excess reserves sitting in the commercial banks, and the question basically is how long is that going to stay there? it will stay there so long as the economy remains in the doldrums. as soon as the economy starts picking up, then you get that -- those excess reserves relent into the marketplace and the usual money multipliers begin to take hold. >> that's your inflation. that's your inflation risk anyway. >> you don't get your inflation until you get money supply up and turnover of that money supply. >> you have told some interviewers about your book, though, that you're rather
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optimistic on the stock market. >> well, it's optimistic because i've always found that the best way to look at the stock market is not what's going up, what are the probabilities of it going down. and if your probabilities are not very large, then you've got a base to work on. the market's come up a good deal now. it's a little bit tricky. but equity premiums are close to their highest level in 50 years. and equity premiums, as you know, are essentially the measure which says what is the rate of return required on equities? and that number is very high. that means that the down side risk of the market is limited. i'm not saying you can't go down. certainly you can go down. but you're not going to get a deep structural decline unless
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and until the equity premium fundamentally changes. and it has come down a bit, but not enough to fundamentally change the outlook. >> puzzle, big puzzle. with the stock market doing very, very well, roaring, and the fed pouring all this liquidity in, though your point about excess reserves and how frozen they are is a great point. obviously you know whereof you speak. but the puzzle is why the economy hasn't done better. it's like every quarter, greedy wall street firms and others say there's going to be a big upturn in growth out there but it hasn't happened. in fact, it hasn't happened in years. in fact, actually the american economy has grown by less than 2% for, i don't know, 12, 14 years. why is this? >> that's basically because there's a very significant part of the economy which is in the doldrums and is not recovering, and that's basically the part of the gdp with a life expectancy of more than 20 years.
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i'm talking about structures and buildings and the like. one of the things i've constructed and found very useful for analysis is to take the gross domestic product and break it down by the life expectancy of the elements in it. software is about three, three and a half years, long-term structures, 30 years; haircuts, one month. and if you look at where the economy is weak, it is not in the short-term stuff. short-term stuff is not great but it's doing reasonably well. there is a large hole in assets with a life expectancy -- >> is it a lack of confidence? it's probably hurting job creation. >> it's wholly a lack of confidence. can you also measure why is the
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case. if you look at the spread between treasury 30-year obligations and five-year obligations, that spread is the largest and it was the largest in american history. it's down a little bit but not a great deal. what that is basically saying is that the discounting of long, distant assets, the income coming from long, distance assets has never been this extreme and it's essentially very difficult for a corporate management, tiff committee to authorize a long-term capital investment when we're not sure what the tax rates will be. >> you made that point, relationship of big deficit and entitlement problems and corporate tax rates. folks say alan greenspan is whitewashing this. you kept interest rates too low
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for too long in the mid 2000s. i know this is not new criticism. in the book you steadfastly maintain it is not the case. >> the reason is it is simply not the case. >> john taylor and others have done econometric work. he says you were a great fed chairman from 2002 to 2005 you kept rates too low for too long and that created the bubble. >> john is terrific. he used to work for me. we are very good friends but we really disagree. let me tell what you the take is on why i think that argument that he's making is wrong. if you look at the -- it's not the issue of, first of all, subprime, that's a minor -- almost a minor issue.
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the real problem is that when the berlin wall came down, the economic room behind the iron curtain was so debilitating and so unexpected that the third world, which is what we now call the developing world, which had been largely collectivized with socialism and regulation, switched very dramatically towards market capitalism. >> and that money flowed here? is that what you're saying? from the berlin wall to the u.s. markets? >> china basically was the big mover, india's also moved. but the data show that since then, the rate of growth in the developing world is also running at twice the rate of growth of the developed world. the cultures in those societies are such that they can't spend
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it all and indeed china has sav. >> and we got the back wash. >> we got this huge flow of savings, which suppressed the real rate of interest not on in the united states but everywhere. >> i've heard this argument before. i just felt compelled to raise it. that debate will go on, however. it's a great book being "the map and the territory" from former fed alan greenspan. i've known you many years. you're doing as great now as ever. i hope i can do it when i get up there myself. my question is what do the illustrious panel of analysts think about what alan greenspan said? we'll knock it around when they return. and my interview with former florida governor jeb bush coming up. you make a great team.
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♪ ♪ ♪ . welcome back to "the kudlow report." we are live from our cnbc studios right here in washington, d.c. back with us now, cnbc contributors jared bernstein, jim pethokoukis. jim, i asked chairman greenspan
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about why the fed is not getting the inflation rate up, and i suggested the target of nominal gdp, you have a following, the market monitorist, the whole total spending in the economy. he said, no, won't work. >> no central bank has made a sustained effort to try to raise the inflation rate has ever failed. i know he's talking about bank reserves but there's other channels for monetary policies, expectations, boosting up asset prices, which have been working and i think have offset the velocity shock that's going to on in the market. i disagree with the chairman. >> he didn't say there would never be any inflation. the way i read him is at such point when the economy and animal spirits improve, all those excess reserves will be put to use and that's your inflation risk. >> it's clearly hard for the fed to generation inflation. chairman greenspan was clear on
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that point and you raised the right question, if you're not getting there with $4 trillion in extra reserves, why not? what i don't think the chairman gets enough credit for is not in the 2000s, in the 1990s when he recognized the productivity and acceleration growth meant that the economy could run hotter than before. >> and no need to tighten because it was growing. >> bingo. that helped the economy achieve full limit for the first time in years. >> he recognized something big was happening in productivity, after all those decades of stagnant -- jared does not want the fed to be capable of creating growth even temporarily or inflation because he wants it to be done during fiscal policy. he wants the impotent fed -- >> clearly you're not familiar with my work. i am a very devoted fan of the
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current federal reserve, who has been putting the monetary pedal to the metal. my point, i'd like to talk to greenspan about, there monetary policy is less effective unless it has fiscal policy to complement it. the fed is setting table with low interest rates, but there's not if you have demand to get people to take advantage of them. >> the fed can create demand. >> you're both missing the most important thing. >> i thought we might be. >> he's bullish on stocks. he's bullish on stocks. he didn't back off one iota. so the yield on stocks, the so-called equity risk premium is so high, there's almost no down side. >> no stock market bubble. >> that's the way i read it. >> i have tremendous respect for mr. greenspan -- >> jared -- this will continue in the green room. now i'm about to head straight to a special dinner. by the way, it the truth.
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in honor of great jack kemp, an old friend of mine. lots of people will be speaking at that including john boehner, paul ryan and former florida governor jeb bush and we are about to talk with mr. bush next up on kudlow.
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i've said it before and i'll say it again. what washington needs is a modern day jack kemp.
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could my next guest just be that person? here now is former florida governor jeb bush, who is going to be receiving the jack kemp leadership award this evening. governor bush, thank you for visiting with us. >> it's an honor to be with you. >> i read your speech carefully, it's a terrific speech. i want to ask you about what i think is a key paragraph. if he was with us now, talking about jack kemp, i think he would agree we have strayed from the politics of winning, from the policies of opportunity and from achieving the governing needed to accomplish this. what did you mean by that? >> well, in order to gogovern, u have to win. the message of winning has to be one that draws people toward you rather than pushes people away. jack kemp never said anything negative about anybody. when he campaigned, he campaign campaigned with me when i was a candidate. he would never say anything bad about anybody else. he would only talk about the policies that could make it possible for people to be
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empowered and have opportunities for success. republicans have the best ideas, conservatives have the best ideas. we need to really stay focus on a positive agenda. it's fair and appropriate to challenge the president when he's gone astray, which he does regularly on policy, but we need to offer some alternative. >> but am i fair and appropriate in reading into this some of your displeasure over recent events in the republican party, including the shutdown, including the divisions, including what some people call a civil war, am i fair in assuming you had that in mind when you wrote this paragraph? >> yeah. because we have to win. in winning you have to add, you can't subtract. now is now the arbiter of whether you're entrepreneur enough, maybe 90% pure and that's not pure enough. we're neff going to get to winning if this is a center right country. republicans and conservatives aren't going to win unless we draw people towards our cause. >> what do you do with the civil
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war going into the pearty, whic i think is not going away. you have senator mccain, great american, no one denies that, but he was furious at senator ted cruz. senator lamar alexander and he was furious. senator corker of tennessee is very, very unhappy. they believed the shutdown really hurt the republican party. do you believe that and what's the solution? >> it hurt certainly in the polling. if you look at the polling, it hurt. over the long haul, though, i think if we shift our focus away from washington towards the state capitals where republicans are doing fantastic work, that's the path to redemption for the republican party going forward. i would say that if we just show a little more self-restraint, which is one of the comments i make, and let people begin to see the flaws in the president's roll-out of obama care, both in terms of the tactical
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implementation side but also the flawed nature of its policy, then we're going to win the day. and then we'll have as paul ryan is building a proposal that would draw people toward our causes. >> you would have said let this thing run through and go on ahead and see what the problems are with it. >> look what's happened since we've moved off the debt ceiling conversation and now the focus is no one can sign up. and of those who can sign up, almost all of them are medicaid beneficiaries. the premises flawed at its core to attract young healthy people to pay for sicker older people is the basis of this and it's not working. i think the better way to deal with this is to let people begin to see it organically and then to offer a compelling alternative. >> compelling alternative. can we talk about that? let me bring in the whole jack kemp analysis, jack, a dear friend of mine and yours, one of the great optimists and leaders and one of the great believers
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in opportunities. i'm going to say jack would want to see something close to universal health care so everybody could take advantage of it, it's just the ways and means that you go about it. so what would your solution be for republican alternative? >> i think the republican alternative ought to be consumer driven and directed, that we empower individuals, rather than have individuals be innocent or bystanders in the whole process. the best example of this is that all the mandates in the obama care law has increased health care costs in california, which was already pretty expensive, by 30% for individuals. people are going to be surprised about this. a market oriented approach where you reward healthy outcomes, where you engage people as consumers will save enormous sums of money and you could extend insurance to a broader number of people. my guess is this idea of universal health care, which is what obama care is supposed to be, won't get close to it. >> and mean shouldn't get close to it, i don't know.
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i think under his plan it's not going to get close to it. let me broaden it out more. kemp was a growth guy. he talked growth to all of us, talked to me 30 years ago for heavens sakes. you a growth guy? >> i am. people with capacity interacting among themselves creates far more opportunity for far more people than any directed programs from washington, d.c. >> what would your key points -- let's hear a jeb bush growth agenda -- nobody talks growth. in the midst of all this shutdown and health care stuff, the republican party has lost its way on the growth message. the economy stinks and has been for many years. >> we should be growing at double the rate we're growing now, which means we need young are people in the workforce. we need an economically growing immigration policy, a transforming education system, we need a strategically driven energy policy based on north american resources and american
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ingenuity and innovation. we need to have simplified taxes and rule making. to trust people once they're empowered to make decisions for themselves far better than having government do it. it's not too late. too many conservatives i think have given up. they basically are just reacting to the overreach and don't believe we can restore american grate greatness bit tried and true means. >> can you sell immigration reform to the gop? tough job. it's a tough job. >> there are a lot of people i talk to that quietly say i understand what you're saying, we need an economic driven immigration plan, i don't want to be primary. at the end of the day people are going to have to put on their big boy pants here and do what's right for the country. we could grow faster if we limited familyification and we placed it with a rebust
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programs. it's within our grasp and to me it's a completely conservative idea that we do this. it will lessen demands on government, not increase them. without it we're going to be an older workforce, less productive and the new normal will be 1% growth. >> if the labor force doesn't grow, the economy can't grow. it's that simple. let me ask you in the final moments, you were a very successful governor of florida. now, let me just ask you, though, the republican party finds itself in the unenviable political position of writing off large chunks of the country, okay? i was around when reagan carried new york state. that isn't even on the ballpark anymore. we were all around when the republicans used to routinely win in california. and be competitive in illinois and be competitive in new jersey and be competitive in connecticut. how does the gop get back i guess behind enemy lines into these blue states and start
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changing that because i don't know how you win national elections if you're writing off gigantic chunks of the popular vote. >> it's a simple fact. back to jack kemp. when we campaigned together, we went into public housing in tampa. i'll never forget it. he gave a still winder of a speech. he loved to speak. he was really good at it. there were 200 people there. he got a standing ovation. he did not veer from the tried and true conservative principles but it was persuasive, it was outside of the traditional republican comfort zone, it was aspirational and people bought into it because they saw someone who cared about them. republicans need to get into communities again and not just live in a protect of bubble. and democrats i think will be on the defensive when we do this. their policies have failed. republican policies are wing policies -- >> so go in there, go into the halls and the projects and the message of growth and opportunity. is that the jeb bush philosophy? >> it is.
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and learn from it. listen and learn and grow from it. it's not that we have a all figured out. that's what jack kemp taught me. >> we really appreciate you coming here. thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> that's it for tonight's special so from washington, d.c. tomorrow a great lineup, including paul ryan. i'm see you all tomorrow night.
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[stopwatch ticking] >> the world series of poker is the richest sporting competition in the world, and yet it pales in comparison to the 1/2 million people who are gambling on the internet right now, even though it's illegal and unregulated in the u.s., which partly explains how a few cheaters were able to steal more than $20 million playing poker online. >> if you can see everybody's cards in poker, you could be the worst poker player in the world up against the best poker player in the world, and you're gonna beat them just about every time. [stopwatch ticking] >> gentlemen and ladies, place your bets. let the games begin.


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